Interview With A Self Managed Artist

Billie: 

If you reflect on the first stages of your career, what were the biggest lessons for you?

 

Wilson:

It would be to forget about ‘being cool’, and go to everything; every workshop, event or gig, on both the management and music fronts. Just go to everything and immerse yourself in the community. You don't know the little details you'll learn from the workshops you go to or the people you’ll meet. A lot of the time, if you go to workshops that don't necessarily look like your cup of tea at the outset, you often meet really driven and dedicated people who are also probably in the same mindset as you going to those events. You’ll get to meet the other two nerds wanting to push their careers further. I also think that sometimes, when you do stuff with other people, they make you feel like everything you do has to be cool, but you just have to get in front of people. You have to play your music to people and develop your sound and artistry.

 

Early on, when I was doing self-management at 16, I think the way that I had to keep reframing my perspective of my project is that nothing was ever about what the results were right then, it was always trying to be about five years down the line. Until you sign a record deal, that's what it should be. When you sign a record deal, it's like, okay, now it's time to align all the pieces you’ve set up over that period of time and bring them into the current moment.

 

Billie:

I think something everyone sees in this industry is that people will jump into deals too early and when they’re not ready, and sometimes agree to the ‘wrong’ kind of deal, and possibly end up in a bad situation. What can you share about negotiating the decision-making process, knowing when to say yes to a deal, and how can young artists protect themselves?

 

Wilson:

With a record deal, I didn't sign a very high-stakes record deal my first time. I spoke to a lot of people about it, including a whole bunch of mentors in the music industry and even people outside of music. I spoke to a lot of business owners and people I cared about, to just get their advice and their perspective.

 

It's been interesting doing things through a distributor, with a label, and now with a publisher. Seeing how those different worlds work has taught me a lot, and I think there’s a real value to having variety in your career. There's also no rush to sign a deal with a label. I used to feel like there was. When you watch movies you don't get a concept of time, you don't see the years that the artist has taken to develop before they sign a deal. There's no rush to sign a deal. It's good to put music out yourself first. If it does well and you want a record deal, it's only going to help you. It's also just going to teach you about what a label, publisher or distributor should be doing because a huge part of signing a deal with confidence is knowing what they should be doing for you. Another part of not rushing is remembering that they’re pursuing you - they want you on their label, or under their publishing because they believe in you, and that should give you confidence to take your time. A huge strategy I found that the label had when I was signing my first deal was that they would try and make me feel as though there was a rush for me to get back to them with my decision, but then they'd take three weeks to reply. That's pretty common with negotiating deals, and it's tough because as an artist you take on a lot of the risk and you're made to feel like you don't, you're made to feel as though everyone else is doing you a favour. I know there's financial risk on the business side, but the artist is also taking that on, we don't have a nine-to-five. If they're the right label, they'll want you to take your time and make the right decision. But on the other hand, sometimes the right things will happen quickly.  

 

Also, if you're going to sign a record deal, negotiate. And negotiate with the strength of a team behind you even if that's just a lawyer. A second opinion is important. And this is kind of case by case and relative to the size of the label, but if you're going in to negotiate with like a medium-size label or a big independent, and they don't front up the money for your lawyer, that's a huge red flag. That's a great first red flag if they don't do that. Then you're seeing their true colours. When I was signing my first deal, I got a really good lawyer. That was a huge thing. Oh yeah, my number one advice on signing a deal - don't cheap out on a lawyer. Take a great lawyer behind you. 

 

Billie:

What makes up the foundation for you to set yourself up for success? What tools, values or strategies do you use for conducting or planning your work?

 

Wilson:

Well when I was younger, I was homeschooled and grew up regionally. So I would ‘cold-email’ people. I'd go through all the websites. I spent a lot of time just sending emails, and I would try and send like ten a day, but I probably sent about five a day because I'm pretty dyslexic. I'd go through all the websites; The Evelyn, The Toff, The Corner Hotel, really any venue in Melbourne, and I’d go through all the bands and events, and find the supports of the headliners, and then find the contacts for the supports. And then I’d email, and say ‘Hey, I saw you guys were playing here. If you're ever doing a headline, I'd love to support you.’ It never worked, but, further down the line, people knew who I was because of it. And eventually, when I came back into their awareness, they go, ‘Oh, that's that guy from way back, who was a kid when he emailed us.’ And I immediately got support. Even with managers and other people on the business side, I'd always hit them up. I never got replies, but I'd always hit them up. And now when I have music coming out, everyone remembers at a certain point, and the penny drops. Proves you're around for the long run. 

 

When I was younger, a really good piece of advice I got was that it's okay to hit people up and say you’re a really big fan of them as an artist manager, and to ask them to get a coffee and ‘pick their brains’. It's good to hit up managers for advice on self-management, and that's what helped me. I despise networking, but I used to do that, and it always led to really productive conversations. I think a lot of people respect that - don't pester them - but reach out and see what happens. 

 

Oh yeah, another thing, don't set up meetings unless you have a really good question or advice you need. Don't just set up meetings with people in the music industry, I used to make that mistake. For example, if you want advice about sync, what you should do and how you should pitch your stuff, hit up a sync person, like people from a music publisher or a music supervisor. Don't hit people up for general advice. Be like ‘Hey, I'm putting out this song and I'd love your opinion on what I should do’. Wait for those moments, you don't have unlimited chances. Ask yourself or your friends, how would I feel if I got sent this email? I did that every time. And normally if it passes that test then it's cool. Goal setting is also important, it helps you constantly reframe what you want personally and for your career. 

 

Billie:

What about as a producer, and building a name on the production side? And how were you getting in rooms with people you look up to in music? 

 

Wilson:

When I was younger, it was all about getting in rooms with my favourite producers and them recognising ‘Oh, Wilson's a good producer’. I started making music when I was a little kid, and I started engineering when I was seven or eight. I was also lucky enough to have a friend, Al, who is in the industry introduce me to Sam Teskey, and before that, I had a family friend Tibi,  who worked on a bunch of John Farnham’s stuff. I did my first ever busking CD with Tibi. He showed me how to use Cubase and Logic, and how to set up everything like preamps and mics on the technical side, instead of me having a stab in the dark when I was a kid. By the end of it, he was like ‘You did everything, I just taught you how to do it’. He instilled a lot of confidence in me to want to co-produce the next thing that I did. So then when Al eventually introduced me to Sam, years later, I was able to step into the context of co-producing with Sam. I also wanted to learn tape stuff, and we were doing stuff analog and tape. Your best advertisement is your art. 

 

Billie:

Another common challenge for creative people is that their work becomes deeply linked with their personal life, which is intrinsic, art is self-expression. How do you overcome the psychological barriers that come with this kind of career path?

 

Wilson:

I struggle with imposter syndrome. We've spoken about this a lot. Imposter syndrome, because I don't want to hit up people, and sometimes I'll talk myself out of it. But then I'm like, why? I'm a manager. Another manager would be like ‘Hey, we'd love to do …’. I learned that my mental health as an artist is intertwined with my personal life. My personal life and career are the same thing. You have to be honest and self-aware. I want my life to be my career. I intend to constantly be close to my publishing team. I intend to, even if things are going well, I'm not going to get a yacht, I'm going to be in the studio. That's what I love doing. If you have a publishing deal, and they have a studio, go there all the time. When I was kid, fifteen/sixteen, that would have been huge. If I were gonna go back and tell myself anything, it would be to find your resources and figure out what you have.

 

Billie: 

What’s the biggest piece of advice you have for people who are embarking on this journey for the first time?

 

Wilson:

Ultimately it's a mindset thing with management. I'm just trying to be genuine and give everything a good shot, but I'm not scared to ask questions of people who know what they're doing more than I do. I used to be petrified of that.  I think that when it comes down to it as a self-managed artist, I’m around a lot of my friends who are not on their shit, and it annoys me, and that was my biggest motivator to be on my shit, like as far as replying to emails, or getting back to people quickly, or showing up for gigs. I think that just having a mindset of being on your shit will help. That's one of the most important things you can do. 

 

Another one of the most important things to do, and any manager will say this too, is to have great art. If I could go back and give myself any advice, I would say that it's okay to just put all your time into that. That's the point of what we're trying to do, is make great art. When you have great art, it makes management easier because you're passionate about what you're doing and it shows through the quality of the art you create. 

 

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If you’re interested in speaking to Wilson further or working with him, please reach out to Class Dismissed via our contact tab.